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The Dylan Ratigan Show

News/Business. The day's most important issues and breaking news stories. New.

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America 7, Afghanistan 6, Taliban 4, New Bayer Am 4, Christie 4, California 4, Pakistan 4, China 3, Bayer Am 3, Colbert 3, Charlie 3, Chris Christie 3, Tony Schwartz 3, Elkhart 2, Phoenix 2, Deepak Chopra 2, Obama 2, Anthony Schafer 2, Steven Colbert 2, Bill Clinton 1,
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  MSNBC    The Dylan Ratigan Show    News/Business. The day's most important  
   issues and breaking news stories. New.  

    September 24, 2010
    4:00 - 4:59pm EDT  

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a new generation of men and women in this country? plus, the first cable interview with colonel anthony shaver since his book was censored by the military. what they don't want you to know about the war and 9/11 attacks. also, if you're depressed by the state of this country and our politics and business community, what could blame you? i get depressed, too, but let's not start the weekend on a sour note. we're bringing in the happyness squad. show starts right now. good afternoon. nice to see you as we wrap up our special series.
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there is new data out today that shows how this crisis has changed the american family, including a report showing that the recession has split this country in two. americans say they have lost ground, their jobs, not making mortgage payments. slightly less than half say they've fared well. perhaps one way they've survived, by making the choice between love and money. the census bureau reporting a 13% jump in unmarried couples who have chosen to move in together. as for the marriemarried, full wife and mother, now full time professional with women working in industries once dominated by their husbands. the rate is nearly two points lower than men. nearly seven in ten recession jobs lost were men.
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meanwhile, the income gap closer than it's ever been. should be encouraging new, however, the closing of the gap has more to do with the fact that men are taking huge pay cuts than it does than women are making more money. that includes the men working as many women have become the reluctant breadwinners. this is profiled in the latest issue of bloomberg business magazine. diane brady, editor and content chief. also with us, mary from arizona, was forced to go back to work when her husband lost his job. start with you diane. put this in context for us how prevalent is this problem and how are you defining it? >> it's not about women going into the workforce cht that's been happening for a generation.
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this is about women who have been, maybe they worked part time. they've been homemakers. they're going in to be the breadwinners because their husband's income has been diminished. it's likely a permanent shift. it's a much lower base. the types of base women are getting are not the jobs being lost. >> why do you say it's permanent? >> you look at what's happening, there's a lot of factors. diminished 401(k)s. stock portfolios that are done. housing prices, down. the average american family's wealth has been diminished, so you need that two income more than ever. the other reality is more often than not, it's one income or one and a half at this point because the husbands are not getting the jobs they used to have. >> mary, would you share a little of your story with us?
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>> sure. my husband was laid off in august of 2008 and we were hopeful he would return to work. that didn't happen. it still hasn't happened. that spring, it became obvious i needed to go out and find a job because we were paying out $1500 a month in cobra payments. i got a job to help put people back to work. i'm not only living the dream, but working with individuals who are trying to retool themselves for the next best thing. >> you got a job as job doctor. is that a fair characterization? >> we work with companies hiring and individuals looking for jobs and try to connect them. >> one thing when you and i spoke is you talked about the impact this had on your husband. how adaptable the men have been versus the women. do you want to talk about that?
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>> right. so, the men that got laid off, it impacted him significantly. as our resource depleted, it became scary, frustrating. we lost our stocks and then our car and then had to sell our house, this was extremely painful. we had to make some serious financial decisions and that's impacted our family life and we're looking at the divorce right now. should be final within the next couple of weeks. that is the reality for a lot of couples out there. because of the longevity of the recession, we're faced with having to deal with crisis for a long period of time. finances are one of the biggest reasons that couples fight. it really is a challenge to try to maintain any kind of solid relationship with someone you're frustrated with all the time. >> that makes too much sense. put this in the context if you
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would, of other disruptions of this economy. world war ii. the river was at the different period of time, but it was a period of time in which women became very active in the workforce. >> it's like it in so far is women went in in huge numbers. they became the bred winners. first of all, the men were out of the country. that was convenient in some respects. the second aspect is women were taking men's jobs. they were in the factories. what we're seeing now is those men's jobs are going away. manufacturing is the sector that shrunk. construction. knowledge workers. you're seeing a real shift in the economy where if there are lower paid jobs, they don't tend to be unionized. women are going to friendly sectors. >> child care, which couldn't be more cliche almost, not that
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women -- >> we still have kids, dylan. >> health care, also. social assistants, insurance. you might as well work for a bank that's destroying the country than not have a job. >> you're seeing a big push in the service sector. their argument is women need to be making more money. used to be, it's okay to make $10 an hour. but the feeling is you need to raise the wages up because they have to support their family on this income. >> but at the end of the day when you've got multinationals like jim owens and a variety of other companies that are sending money to washington, d.c. for the explicit purpose of maintaining the unfair trade practices to china, how does somebody like mary or her husband stand a chance against the special interests?
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>> it's a global workforce and i think the reality is we compete with people in india, china. that has pushed wages down. >> but american multinationals are lobbying to prevent the worker's rights of the people in china who work 20-hour days at 30 cents an hour, are not allowed to go to the bathroom, are not allowed to have sex and have to sleep ten to a room and american corporations, is that the vision for america's future, too? >> i think that's one reason you're seeing a lot of anger in this country. one thing mary can can speak to, what's happening to the middle class. phoenix is being gutted because you have people making $10 an hour. >> you want to elaborate, mary? >> we do have jobs opening up in phoenix and we are working with companies opening up jobs in warehouse, financial services, but the nature of those are entry level positions. what we're not seeing a lot of
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is that idea that there are some, there are not a lot of middle income jobs opening up. so people that we bring in, what a i called the degree professionals, are having to look outside the state for work. >> mary, thank you so much for your story and sympathies for the struggles. diane, congratulations on the great piece. author of the article. mary wolf francis, one of the americans every day who is living through the stories we describe and debate in this environment. we can't thank you enough, mary, for sharing your story. coming up, did steven colbert make a mockery of congress today? of course. or did lawmakers take care of that mockery without any help from colbert?
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that's probably also true. plus, chris christie leaping to defend meg whitman at a california fund-raiser. is he the hero the gop has been looking to break? we're back after this. ♪ [ male announcer ] ever have morning pain slow you down? introducing bayer am, an extra strength pain reliever with alertness aid to fight fatigue. so get up and get goin'! with new bayer am. the morning pain reliever. ♪ but i really love my bank ♪ i hate-- didn't quite catch that last bit. i said i really love my bank. right... is there a problem ? it's not really raging, man. uh, we were hoping for more raging ? well, you said write from the heart. yeah... don't do that.
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chris christie to the rescue and steven colbert on capitol hill. it gets no better. first up, chris christie playing
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the knight in shining armor. he suddenly jumped up to confront an angry heckler. >> hey, hey, listen. hey, listen, you know what? you want to yell, yell at me. don't give her a hard time. we're here talking about the state of california and the future of our country and you know what? let me tell you this. it's people who raise their voices and yell and scream like you that are dividing this country. we're here to bring this country together not divide it. >> well, the first term governor became one of the fastest rising stars inside the gop. the kind of solid, sensible politician that seems in short simply in either political party. a recent poll showing 68% of americans disapprove of
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republicans' performance. if you're a democrat, don't get too excited. you've been in power and 60% disapprove of that. at least you know the americans are not as stupid as some might like to believe even if they don't feel they have the power right now to make the change that's clearly necessary. voters unhappy with their options no matter what the party is. this holds true regardless of who or what happens in november. here to mix it up, david goodfriend and brett littlefield. david, christie certainly represents something appealing to the american emotional self. what do you think it is? >> well, i have to point out there's some irony in a republican saying we should stop the yelling. all the anger seems to be come frg the right. >> let's forget the us and them. just go with the fact he's
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makimake ing an effort to try to represent something not versus me versus you, but us working together. >> when he says that somehow it's president obama's fault that new jersey lost its education grant through the mistake at the governor's office, that's not bringing people together. i think he's got sharp elbows just like the rest of them. i think he's a partisan attack dog and this was no different having the new jersey mob guy defending the candidate in california. >> goodfriend's not having it. not for one second does he believe this nonsense. >> oh, my good, goodfriend's bringing up the sapranos. listen, he tells it like it is.
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i'm working with some candidates this year who tell it like it is and they're getting cheered. people are tired of politicians saying one thing and doing another. and they're ready for some fresh faces. i would argue that a lot of these new republican candidates coming up, love that music, are fresh faces. >> hold on a second. you say if i was you, i would file a complaint because brett gets a sound track. >> i want the theme song to the so sopranos. tony thought he was going to say, shut up, i don't want to hear what you have to say. politicians don't like it when -- what was that guy saying? he was saying, hey, how come the candidate over there isn't answering questions. good question. how come the candidate didn't have the audacity to answer some
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questions? the he cckler had it right. governor christie? >> nothing. i'm telling you. the gop operatives have taken over the show, david. i can't explain it. >> it's a precurser for things to come. >> let's move to more serious matters, which pertain of course to the immigration debate in this country and what could be more serious than a pretend cable host testifying in character to a real congress. i'm not sure who looks crazy. it's the congress. the comedian pulled yet another brilliant move in my view. he was called in to speak as an expert at a house hearing on immigrant farm workers. >> a long tradition of great nations importing foreign workers to do their farm work. but this is america. i don't want a tomato picked by a mexican. i want it picked by an american,
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then sliced by a -- and served by a venezuelan where a chilean gives me a brazilian. >> the comedian keeping it up through the -- this happened in our country today. here's a little more. >> i would like to recommend that now that we've got all this attention that you excuse yourself. i'm asking you to leave the committee room completely and submit your statement instead. >> speaker of the house nancy pelosi on the other hand with a different view supporting colbert in his what she called truthyness. >> an american -- the committee, had a point of view, he can bring attention to an important issue like immigration. think it's great.
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>> david, the -- give us the deepest analysis we can muster as to the nation of the political discourse in this country when a man who plays a nonexistent character is called in to testify on the use of foreign immigrant labor such as then he can get a venezuelan to get a chilean to give him a brazilian, where are we in the cycle of american politics? >> you asked for a serious answer. i'm going to give you a serious answer. i've been a staffer on a committee when we've tried to get attention. look, the fact that here we are on national television discussing this hearing means that whoever came up with a idea to have him testify was on to something. he did bring attention to this issue and in the eyes of chairman conniers, who i love and respect, may have been one
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bridge too far. human is a good way to get people's attention. whether or not you agree with the position that he had, attention to the issue is what the hearing was about. >> brett, colbert had one other thing to say, one that really struck me. i would be interested to know if you agree with his fictitious character. he says -- you agree? >> where do i even begin? >> careful. >> i would just say hey, i'm a fan of comedians. a huge comedian fan. i love his show. david makes a good point today.
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maybe it was a good employ, but that's the only way they're going to get attention. voters have turped them off. they're moving toward november. people aren't really interested in what this congress has to say or do. they feel nothing's happened or been accomplished. people are tuning them out. maybe they were just desperate to get attention. >> heck of a way to do it. david, you changed the way i was thinking about this a little bit because your point was so good even without the music you were able to communicate it. >> i that had tune, it's still there. there we go. >> there it is. >> there's my governor christie theme music right there. >> i'm going to let you guys have a good weekend. thank you for having the conversation with us. up next, the first cable news interview with anthony schafer talking about how and
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why his new book was censored by the pentagon and beyond that, what he has to offer as an alternate way about how to fight terror in this country and what the military doesn't want us to know about it.
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president obama: yeah, i took a trip to elkhart, indiana, today. elkhart's a place that has lost jobs faster than anywhere else in america, and the people who've lost them have no idea what to do or who to turn to. in fact, local tv stations have started running public service announcements that tell people where to find food banks, even as the food banks don't have enough to meet the demand.
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excuse me. how are you? nice to see you. we are back with a cable exclusive. imagine for a moment you're a bronze star recipient. you've served your country in afghanistan and later, you write about your experiences on the front lines. you go on to offer alternative paths to fighting terror. alternate ways to deal with the threat. you write a book about it and vet it through all proper channels. disclose the entire contents. project gets approval and moves forward. it's an american story, you know. but just as the first 10,000
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copies of the book i just described are being printed, the pentagon decided the contents are so explosive that officials step in and start to buy up and destroy every last copy before anyone can see it. this is not a made up story, but happened to colonel anthony schafer as he tried to publish his book. leaked copies have sold for thousands on the internet. an approved version hit bookshelves. it's a pleasure to see you. how do you explain all this? >> it's been like walking at the bottom of the ocean and as you know, we talked about the book months ago. it was something we disclosed
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and i thought by every major that i had everything i could for publishing. there's no intent to jeopardize anyone in the field ever. i'm kind of frustrated by the fact that i followed the process, i'm an army reserve officer. i said, this what we're doing. 18 months ago. i followed that process. at one point in time, the book was cleared, january of this year. got the appropriate documentation. we moved down. publishing day was set. so, over the summer, things started coming unravelled. rumors that people were not happy with the content. at one point, a very nasty call from defense intelligence agency back to the people who cleared the book. from there, you've heard the rest of the news. >> let's talk about the con
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tense of the book. what is operation dark heart? what is the point of this document? >> the point of the book was to set into motion, idea for an alternate strategy. the victory may not be a military victory, but something we can live with. victory is being able to address our national security concern for that region. making sure nuclear weapons never show up here to do damage to our infrastructure, which taliban and al-qaeda both want out of pakistan and to make sure no other terrorist attacks can be mounted from that region. that's one of the things we should be looking at. >> what are do you articulate as variables to achieve those and how are we not purr seeing them now? >> the problem is not in afghanistan. most of the problem is in pakistan. with that said, in '03, we had chance to put a heart into
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taliban's resurgence to buy more time. i'm not arguing my book to deal with the then in 2003 resurging taliban. we knew the taliban were being able to reconstitute and rearm in pakistan in three safe havens. this is the focus of the book. that tipping point where we knew we were able to achieve victory and we saw where this was going. the future part of the book is to show what can be done to actually do something positive to achieve what we need to do to achieve a form of victory. >> but operation dark heart was the beginning. i think there's a mosquito in the studio. but moving effectively into pakistan. never happened? happened? >> it started. the book details -- i think there's a lot of issues with
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that. there were some issues there because we felt at the time, this is a policy issue, they were too close to the pakistani service. we felt they had lost a great deal of objectivity by the fact they had been dealing with the isi. >> and you're telling me they were appraised of the fact that you were going to offer a description of operation dark heart, a secret intelligence mission to effectively advance the u.s. counterterrorism affects. they cleared that? >> it was part of the operational issue. our intent was to begin the operation using authorities then let them know we were doing it. part of the issue here frankly, was that we felt the cia was not playing fairly. i could tell you stories about some things we had to do to prompt cia to tell us about what they were doing. it was not something cooperative. that's one of the points in the
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book. all cylinders were not firing the same way. >> do you still believe that's the case? >> there are still problems. i think things are much better, but there's still room for improouft and issues to how to cooperate to achieve vikt are. >> put all this together. you have all of these powerful individualst are managing the war machine. we have incredible debate, i'm thinking of the bob woodward book revealing the level of debate and conflict about the war. this is the deadliest war in afghanistan. this is not vietnam. this is dynamic. how are the soldiers in afghanistan today, how are the
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military people that are on the front lines of this war to feel when the nature of the dialogue is so conflicted in this country? >> that's the key to the whole issue. bad policy has killed more people than bad intelligence. we've had great intelligence. in the case of dark heart, we knew the taliban was researching and didn't take adequate policies to prevent that to buy the afghan government more time. >> but was that deliberate, that is because we were distracted, because our whole concepts in terms of engagement are wrong? >> we went from playing chess to checkers. general barno, i believe, had more of a political approach to it. he wanted the pakistanis to quote unquote, carry their own
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weight. with that said, the main effort during the time we're talking about for the book was iraq. i think we lost the eye on the ball. other things went off track as well during that period. >> how do we get out of afghanistan? >> i don't think we'll ever completely leave. if i were the president, i would declare victory and leave tomorrow. you need to throw the taliban off their game. we've told them what we're doing. we don't need to be there in the numbers we are. right now, we're supporting the karzai government as a proxy. we arrived there in '01, '02, because of vengeance. the tribes understood we're there for vengeance. now, we're being painted as occupiers. their rigid, sharia law is what is getting them credit. >> i get it.
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thank you for the conversation. congratulations on the book. interesting to say the least. the book is out though. "operation dark heart." thank you so much for the conversation. still ahead, your story, your videos from the front lines of the job wars this week. what you are telling us about your struggles and successes and our desire to share those stories with not only our audience, but our leaders. and then come on, get happy, people. with so much doom and gloom in the air, we thought we'd bring in our happyness squad to give us some perspective. deepak chopra and tony schwartz putting things in context in the moments to come. ♪ ♪
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we've been asking you to
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share your stories and video from the front lines of the job wars and one of the first we received was from charlie. married, in his 30s and out of work for two years. charlie, another victim of the hard-hit manufacturing industry. here is some of the struggle he's facing. >> i have a background in manufacturing. unfortunately, that hasn't worked out either. i've applied to countyless companies and gotten zero phone calls. for the family, we've decided it's probably best for me to go back to school. i've applied to a culinary arts program here in ohio. this will be my third time going to college. >> charlie's story like countless others who worked in manufacturing, also an industry that we know has been hard-hit by those who have transferred those jobs out of this country. it is estimated some 6 million
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jobs have been shed from that industry over the past decade. i applaud charlie even if he has had to go to school three different times for continuing to make the effort to adapt to the environment around him even if it feels out of anyone's control. we also got this note from kathleen. she writes -- again, that speaks directly, i suppose, sense of taking control and making that decision as opposed to the feelings of powerlessness many of us feel relative to our government and
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special interests that have taken over and relative to our own potential view as fear of being a victim and or suffering from one of those special interests compliments to you for taking charge of the situation. if you have a story or a video to share, we want to hear from you. go to our facebook.com, facebook page, i should say. it's facebook.com/dylanmsnbc. our intent to build a community of people who want to get america back to work and back into the business of building communities with one another. building relationships and ultimately, building solutions and finally, a quick update from our show yesterday. we talked with seth reams, founder of a website called that connects people with time on their hands with other ins more desperate need than themselves. seth volunteers have done
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everything from billing wheelchair ramps to building gardens to fixing indoor plumbing for people. he said after the show, he was inundated with people who want to start their own groups. ten cities and counting have formed new chapters of we've got time to help based on his appearance yesterday and the e-mails continue to pour in. we're delighted to partner with you and help with your cause. again, we've got time to help.com. if you have an interest in helping seth spread this time in a way that is beneficial to all our communities. up next, our happiness squad. why ways to find a silver lining in these dark clouds over this country are easier than you
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might believe and we'll allow you to solve the problems in a way that's much better for you and probably everybody else. yellowbook has always been crucial to your business, but now, to get it really cooking, you need a little website development. some transparent reporting, so you know it's working. online ads and 1-on-1 marketing consultation. yellowbook's got all that. yellowbook360 has a whole spectrum of tools. the perfect recipe for success. visit yellowbook360.com and go beyond yellow. words alone aren't enough. our job is to listen and find ways to help
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or visit your local liberty mutual office, where an agent can help you find the policy that's right for you. liberty mutual auto insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? okay. one thing that is clear from today's show and from this show really since it's been on tv i would say, from the economy to afghanistan, and that outburst quashed by governor christie in
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california, people in this country are angry. people are frustrated. people are afraid. about what is happening or what they perceive to be happening in america right now. in some cases in my opinion, they're right to be afraid. they're right to be frustrated. but on this friday, here's a question. how do we take the frustration, the reasons to be inningry and convert that not into something that destroys ourselves and our relationships with those around us, but convert that energy into something that helps us create solutions and communities in our lives that diminish the injustice that so frustrates us. i, myself, have been looking to convert the way that i deal with this job and these conflicts in public. you've seen the past. you've known sometimes it hasn't exactly been bridge building. i believe it will be or hope it
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will be as i continue to work on the way i solve problems in general. i've brought in what i'm calling our happyness squad. they're not going to get you rich and famous, but they're going to get you happy. you're looking at deepak chopra, he's got a new book out. it is the latest in a series of teaching novels on the founders of the world's biggest religions. also with us, tony schwartz, friend of the fram and author of "the way we're working isn't working." tony says we need more naps. it's a pleasure to see you both. >> you know, you should have the happyness squad regularly and call it the happyness hour. >> maybe we'll pitch somebody at the network after the show. >> got the logo. >> i've sort of lived through a lot of in. the job i have requires me to be current on all sorts of little
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detailed things. if i'm looking for a reason to become angry, frustrated or upset, it has very easy to do because of the abundance of detail to allow me to see the injustice is as easy as showing up to work, how do you navigate that and convert that in your lives so that you're able to not be poisoned by it, but actually help fix it? >> well, in general, there's a lot of research on it. happy people see opportunities where unhappy people see problems. this whole recession is a good example. i was speaking to president clinton a few days ago and he said in a post recession, there have never been so many job opportunities as now. but we don't have the right skill set. we don't have the right education for the right skill set. in technology, infrastructure, in many ways.
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if you don't have the skill set rkt now is the time to get that. there are lots of opportunities. lots of opportunities for entrepreneurship. for bartering services. >> you watch msnbc, read the news and you say, i don't feel i can do anything to help. anything to change the special interests, the government. how do you deal with the feelings of powerlessness? >> by a willingness to hold opposites. that means on the one hand, you recognize that on some level, you do have no power at all and you can't actually influence these things. >> i tried yelling at them. they don't listen. >> but on the other hand, you give every ounce of your energy in the beliefs that you can. that's the paradox of it.
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because you wake up in the morning absolutely committed to bringing everything you can to the table and if most people in america are looking at the dylan, a deepak or tony, they're going to say, if that person's complaining, the world isn't a good place. >> how much of the willingness to let go of the quout comes and enjoy the process. you can't have an expectation. you have to have a passion and process. >> i was recently and -- said to me, i'll give you the secret of happyness. the most important time in your life is right now. the most important person in your life is the one you're with this moment now. and the most important activity is what you're doing right now. if we could say focused in the present moment, let go of the outcome, it would take care of
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itself. if i'm studying on the exam, i focus on the studying, not the results. >> let me ask you even if you think that -- >> i love that, by the way. i love that. >> then you won't like this. i, myself, don't particularly think happyness is a particularly interesting outcome. i think it's wonderful if it happens to be the thing that occurs, but what gets me up in the morning is the feeling that i might have an influence on something or somebody that makes that a little better. that's an incredible source of energy. turns out that a derivative of that is when it works, it makes me happy. >> we would be doomed to eternal civility. we need a little bit of divine discontent and for you, my friend, the best way for you to be happy is give up your need to be right all the time. >> i was going to ask you about
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this. deepak has these tips. i am right and -- and i need to -- i don't understand why they won't listen to me. number one, listen to your body. i've got bigger problems. stay in the present moment. i'm getting better at that. here's my big problem. give up being right. have you lost your mind, sir? stealing our money. >> it doesn't mean that you don't have a point of view. it's just that give up your need to constantly defend your point of view. and find a creative solution to the problem. right now, we have the situation with the islamic center, right? everybody's trying to be right. instead of saying who's right and wrong, what do we want? peace. so, call the islamic center for peace, unity, reconciliation,
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dedicated to the victims of 9/11, including the muslims who died and we have a solution. do you want to be right or do you want peace and harmony and justice and truth? >> i want peace, harmony and truth. and beauty. who cares about being right? >> who cares. >> do you see how good this guy is? >> the easiest way to be happy, make somebody else happy or help them. >> i would think that you could take a lot of joy in the idea that you are arguing for things that you believe in and care about and there are not many people -- >> and i have been. >> that's the key. complain -- >> supposed to get your ego hung up on being right. thank you for counciling me and doyne it in public. our happyness squad. deepak chopra, tony schwartz.
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we need to get you guys a van. i would love to have you back. we'll have you back weekly until it's a tv show. coming up, chris matthew looking at bill clinton as the comeback kid. where do we stand? first, some parting thoughts here at the end of this special job wars week and how it is just the beginning of a much bigger campaign to bring all of us together to solve problems in a way we were just discussing. back after this. ♪
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all this week, we've been reporting from the front lines of the job wars in this country. we hope this week is just the beginning of that. we want to give a voice to those without a voice. we want to help move america from a culture where we build motes to protect yourself at the expense of everybody else to a country where we seek to build bridges for others. i truly believe that with your help and all of our help, we can do all of it. on monday, we turn our attention to the plaza for a special show. it's a focus on the critical issue that literally determines the future of this country. we cannot have new business, new innovations, new solutions with an

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